Kitco NEWS Interviews

Wheaton dips toe with cobalt stream

Episode Summary

Wheaton Precious Metals affirmed that the company is primarily a precious metal business despite announcing first production from a cobalt stream from Voisey's Bay. CEO Randy Smallwood spoke to Kitco on Friday. The cobalt deal was first announced in 2018. The company's Q1 was Thursday. Wheaton's revenue was $324 million in the first quarter of 2021, representing a 27% increase from the first quarter of 2020 due primarily to an equivalent increase in the average realized gold price. The company affirmed year-end guidance.

Episode Transcription

Wheaton precious metals reports. First production from it's cobalt stream. I'm with CEO, Randy Smallwood, Randy. Welcome to Kitco always a pleasure, Michael. Good to see him. Randy, can you highlight the first quarter? Oh, it's a good strong quarter. Um, you know, we had, uh, we had a little bit lighter gold production out of slow bubble for all the right reasons.

 

Uh, but, um, uh, good strong production from, uh, from penny Skeeto on the silver side to make up for that then brought in our first cobalt production from the  Bay operation. So, uh, a good strong start to the year that sets us up very well for, uh, for meeting our objectives for the year. Randy, could you talk a little bit about, uh, that shortfall with gold, uh, and, uh, how you're setting yourself up for the rest of the year.

 

Well, like, uh, you know, strong, supportive valet. Uh, the, of mine of course had a couple of, uh, safety incidents in the fourth quarter of last year. And so they've, they, uh, from the maintenance side, these happened in the maintenance area. So they did, they basically did a safety reset there, a real strong focus on, uh, um, on the.

 

Trying to achieve zero harm. And, uh, so we're in full support of all the efforts from valet in terms of trying to make sure that, uh, that, that, that the slow-mo mind is operated in a safe and zero harm manner. And, uh, and part of that is, uh, is making sure that there's a good, strong safety focus. And so we saw some, some, some, uh, maintenance, uh, you know, uh, impacts in the first quarter.

 

And that's what, uh, brought our a gold or a little bit lower gold production. So I would argue that that's for the right reason. Highlight of the quarter must've been the Santo Domingo deal. Yeah, definitely. It's a, it's an asset that we, we went in a little bit skeptical on, but the more we looked at it, the more we liked it, it is a good, strong asset.

 

It's a, it's a healthy first core top producer in the copper space. Uh, and it's got all sorts of upside potential even beyond, as, as capstone gets in there. And so we're really excited about partnering with capstone on this one. You mentioned cobalt. Can you talk a little bit more? Yeah, first production from, uh, from the voices Bay operation.

 

Um, you know, it, it is our first venture outside of precious metals, likely going to be our only, we, you know, it, it is a very unique asset in, in the sense that that Boise's Bay produces some of the cleanest greenest, most socially responsible, most environmentally sound cobalt in the world. And so having this in our portfolio is something that we're quite happy with, but we are not looking for other cobalt streams.

 

We are focused on precious metals. It has been a good, a good start from a production perspective. We actually, um, uh, you know, uh, picked up, uh, a bunch of working inventory, uh, uh, as, as part of the quarter when, uh, you know, the, uh, the contract came on and this is a very vertically integrated integrated system where not only do we have exposure to the mind, but also the smelter down at, uh, Long harbored.

 

So, so, um, so really good strong production numbers out of, uh, out of Boise's Bay for this first quarter, as we build up our working inventory production, our sales were a little bit light, but, uh, as expected, it is our first quarter of selling cobalt and expect this thing to just drop into the portfolio very nicely.

 

Can you talk a bit about, uh, that business? Cause, uh, you know, you know, ed materials have been, just are really taking off. You just see the moves that have happened, uh, with, uh, cobalt and nickel and then just, uh, the anticipated demand does something like, uh, you know, does a streaming and royalty model work.

 

Golf for the, uh, ed material space. And, um, I guess also there's also what has to be alignment with what's happening at pressure, uh, Wheaton, precious metals, definitely. I mean, you know, and we've always been very committed towards the sustainability side. Um, you know, it's part of running a successful business and so a social license, which is, which is, you know, definitely been broadened out, but social license has always been an integral part of our company.

 

It's been an integral part of my business activities for my entire career. Um, you know, The ear, you know, the, um, the, um, the Evie metals and minerals, there's definitely a demand for that. And we can see that, uh, in, in terms of, uh, copper demand, nickel, demand, lithium cobalt, all the way across the spectrum.

 

Uh, there's, there's going to be a higher, definitely much higher consumption rates required around the world. And in, in some of these Evie materials. And, and we're seeing that in pricing, in terms of commodity prices right now, from a streaming perspective, Uh, a lot of those materials are produced as a core product, a primary product.

 

And so you can put streams in place, but they're not as effective. They're not as, uh, as value creating as, as when you're doing, uh, byproduct streams. And so, so our continued focus at Wheaton is, is, uh, as, as people build copper mines and nickel mines, uh, Um, you know, we're, we're still adamant in terms of trying to chase down, trying to help finance that growth by purchasing the non-core bi-product silver and gold.

 

So our focus is going to remain precious metals. There are a couple of companies that are stepping into the space on the ed side, but, um, you know, we haven't seen any big success on that front yet. I'm going to my favorite part of the interview, Randy, you're always good at modeling mining cycles. Where are we right now?

 

Uh, well, okay. There's, there's the precious metals industry where we're seeing, you know, good healthy prices and healthy returns and all the precious metal companies, uh, at least those that are producing or generating really good cash flows and profits. And so, so, you know, we don't see a lot of space in there, maybe at some of the, uh, the juniors that are sort of building their first mind, et cetera, where we can provide some support, but it is a good, healthy market.

 

But, uh, you know, in terms of commodity prices, they still see some good strength. Uh, you know, I think what we've seen here is a very firm foundation built in, uh, in, in gold prices at least. And we're seeing a good strength moving up now in the base metal market. Um, the base metal industry has, uh, has, has awoken from alongside it's been many years since we've seen, uh, base metal prices like we have right now.

 

Oh, we're seeing all time highs now in copper. I, I, I fully expected Nicole and lead and zinc are going to chase the same path as we, uh, as we, you know, um, as, as the world's demand for these commodities increases and the challenges, um, And then the costs of, of finding new mines and building new mines also increases all of that drives towards increased, uh, opportunity.

 

And so, so, you know, we're really seeing, uh, at the start of a new investment cycle in the base metal space. And that's one of the reasons why we at Wheaton are as busy as we've ever been. We've got more opportunities in front of us right now that we've than we've seen in a long time. And, uh, and the bulk of those are funding base metal opportunities, uh, by buying their non-core precious metals byproduct.

 

You mentioned that, uh, Evie material space, uh, if you were up producing a nickel or producing copper, then that's going to be a kind of a primary based metal. But, uh, what would be the types of metals that, uh, might work or that might fit, uh, you know, more naturally there might be more opportunity. Well, you know, for, for me, uh, I've always been very bullish.

 

Silver, silver just has some attributes that, that make it very unique and very desirable. And especially in today's world with an increasing focus on, on lowering our carbon footprint, um, silver conducts electricity more efficiently, more effectively than. Any other metal, any other normal metal. And so, so the demand for silver, the demand for efficiencies, the demand for less waste.

 

Silver is going to play a role in that. And you, you go and look at, uh, an arrow, especially in a mobile world, as we're seeing right now. You want batteries to last longer, you want higher processing power on your Apple watch or your iPhone or, or, or your electric vehicle. Silver plays a role in making sure that that happens.

 

And so, you know, and, and in my eyes, silver is, is, is, has got some real opportunity here in with the, with the changes that we're seeing in today's world, Silver's going to play, uh, you know, and we've seen that we've seen increasing industrial demand for silver. All the way along. And so it's just an added fundamental that really, uh, gives me, uh, I'm excited about where silver can go.

 

How's gold looking right now. We had a bit of a lift. Uh, we've got into the 18 hundreds, but what do you see for the rest of the year? Well, I really do think that what we, what we've seen here is a bit of a, the phrase I use is a pandemic bump where last year we saw gold beach record highs in the face of, uh, the uncertainty around the pandemic.

 

And, but as confidence has come back in terms of our ability as a society, to, to whether, you know, whether this pandemic comes through it, gold is, has peeled back a bit. And I think it's dropped down to another, you know, sort of a new foundation level. But if you go back to 2004, 2002, uh, when you, when you saw gold trading at $300 an ounce, we have been on a constant uptrend in gold prices ever since then.

 

And I think that that's what we've now caught, you know, we're back down to is the depend DEMEC has, I'm not going to say it's been priced out. I still think there's probably a bit of risk related to spend by no means are we finished dealing with this? You look at places around the world, like India and such, and we know we've still got a lot of challenges here to, to, to.

 

To work through, but I, when it comes to, you know, where our goal is, we, I think we've again, established a very firm foundation over the last couple of months. And, uh, and now we're going to see some good, strong, upward, uh, continued upward trend that we've been seeing for 20 years now. Crypto has been stealing a little bit of gold Stender, uh, do precious nettles need to do a little bit better marketing on this.

 

Well, and as chair of the world, gold council, we have stepped up our marketing on that front, but, but we don't compete with crypto. Crypto is incredibly volatile. It's a very speculative, um, you know, we're already seeing a bit of a switch away from Bitcoin into other commodities or other cryptocurrencies.

 

And, uh, and there's, you know, there's, there's nothing long-term about crypto. It's an incredibly volatile. Space. And so I would argue, and then I think, you know, logic says that gold is there to counter, um, the, the risk that comes with, uh, products like cryptocurrencies. And so, you know, uh, everyone, I think what we, you know, there's no doubt it's had a bit of an impact.

 

And I think where it's had a bit of an impact is the, is they're very risk friendly investors, the, uh, the marginal players in the gold space that are looking for, um, you know, for that volatility, for that, uh, For that speculative nature and, uh, gold itself is a very stable platform that has been around for thousands of years and, and is there to counter products like cryptos.

 

So, uh, there's no doubt. Um, you know, it's typically those that have a lot of crypto. That are telling you that it's replacing gold. Uh, they need to do that because they need to bring in new investors to, uh, support, uh, their value thesis on, on crypto. Um, but it's only those that own a lot of crypto that are telling you how good it is and how it's like gold, Randy Smallwood.

 

Thanks for speaking with, Kitco always a pleasure, Michael I'm with CEO, Randy Smallwood, my name's Michael MacRae, and you're watching Kitco mining.